here at the University of Wisconsin. And I wanted to meet him. In my morning meditation practice, I have this ritual: after I meditate, I go through my calendar and, in a very short period of time, just reflect on meetings I have upcoming and bring the person I'm meeting with into my mind and my heart -- just reflect on how I could be most helpful in that meeting, and also appreciate who this person is.And then when I meet them -- this is something that happened today -- really at the very first moment of meeting, recognizing that here is a person who is just like me, who has Buddha Nature and has all these qualities within himself. Part of why I'm here doing what I'm doing is so that I could show up in a way that is most appreciative of his Buddha Nature, of his innate capacity to flourish. And that would lead to the most productive kind of interaction. It was a great meeting and I really had this very palpable sense of connection.
Other examples: eating. I always use a practice around eating. We eat several times a day -- it's a great opportunity to simply appreciate all the people that contributed to having food on the plate, and reflecting on how they're just like me in having these same qualities. And it's a real motivation for our practice -- that we can practice in order to be as helpful as we can, to help others discover their true nature, just like we're trying to discover our own. It really comes alive when you are interacting with people in this way.
9. Seeing the Buddha Nature in Others
Cortland
I love that. And you use this phrase "just like me," which is a whole practice unto itself -- something I find super helpful as well, especially in moments where someone might be a little on the neurotic side, because it's so easy to get fixated on the more toxic elements of experience. I've found that practice in particular so helpful, because in that moment, just remembering: "Oh, just like me, this person wants to be happy. Just like me, this person doesn't want to suffer." And just like me -- even though we don't want to suffer, even though we all want to be happy -- we still kind of get totally off the rails sometimes. We still do things that aren't so kind sometimes. None of us is perfect, and even though we all share these basic impulses, we're all kind of doing this human thing and making mistakes and self-correcting.
To me it just brings in a sense of common humanity. None of us is perfect. It doesn't excuse -- if somebody's doing something harmful, it doesn't rationalize that. It just brings a sense of common humanity back into it. And I find my mind is just more grounded and balanced when I reconnect with that.
And like you, I think the relational part of it is super helpful. Another thing I love to do -- I think I've mentioned this in previous episodes -- is almost like seeing the Buddha Nature in the other person, like I did with CJ in that moment. Viewing them that way. And it's not some abstract principle -- it means very specific things. Seeing that this person has this open, expansive awareness that we all have and that we all completely lose touch with. This person has the seeds of kindness and compassion. They want to be happy and they want to be free from suffering -- again, just like me. They have this incredible wisdom. Look at all the things they manifest in their lives.
You don't even need to think that explicitly. It's almost just bringing to mind this [00:30:00] more expansive view of humanity and this potential we have -- and then just seeing it in the person who's right in front of me. And I find two things happen: it definitely shifts something in the relationship, something changes in the way you're relating to people, as you described in the meeting with the dean. In fact, I think we're going to discuss the idea that flourishing is contagious -- we'll get into that in a subsequent session.
But secondarily, it almost rebounds and reverberates back to me. When I'm seeing that in somebody else, it creates this little loop -- suddenly I see it more in myself, and then it's easier to see it in them, and it kind of builds on itself in a very positive way.
So relationships are clearly one very powerful way to do it. What about your more formal meditation practice -- do you work with this there as well?
Richie
There are certainly practices I do that remind me of our nature. The "just like me" practice that you were describing is actually something that is taught in the Joy of Living curriculum. There are times when I will do that very explicitly. And then there are other, more elaborate practices in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition that really remind us of our true nature -- they're accompanied by reflections and they've affected me deeply. I come back to them regularly, and they spontaneously arise during the day when I'm interacting.
Having that formal sit time on the cushion is really helpful in creating the causes and conditions that allow them to arise spontaneously -- particularly when there's friction during the day and when this perspective is really going to matter.
Cortland
I find that too. And I think for me, both in formal meditation practice and equally throughout the day, a lot of it is just remembering this inner orientation -- noticing how much of the time, my default, and probably for all of humanity, is the opposite. The default is to constantly be in this fixing mode where we're seeing the flaws, seeing the imperfections, always trying to get things better. We're fixing ourselves, fixing our relationships, fixing our partners, seeing all the flaws in the world. And we just totally miss this basic orientation to the stuff that's already here.
So for me, as much as anything, it's just clicking back into that. Noticing the orientation toward the problems and just shifting back into, "Let's not forget about everything else that I'm maybe not in touch with."
Richie
And one other element here: when a person is engaged in some kind of behavior that seems harmful to themselves or to others, the kind of practice we do helps us to see them as confused and maybe deluded -- but not fundamentally --
Cortland
Not fundamentally -- or evil or anything like that.
Richie
Exactly. Their action may be something you want to condemn, but it arises because they're failing to appreciate their true nature. And that engenders compassion. It really does. Even for public figures who I don't have to name -- who engender almost rage at times -- it really flips quickly. You see: "Wow, they are so confused. It's so sad that they're so disconnected from their underlying true nature." And that just immediately transforms the response into compassion.
Cortland
You can see the world is so in need of this perspective shift -- so we can start seeing the good in each other, even if we disagree, even if we're on opposite sides of the political divide or the religious divide or whatever the divides are, which seem to be so many these days. We need to find a way to come back to common humanity, to something good and wholesome that is there in all of us.
And what we're seeing here -- and certainly what we talk about in Born to Flourish -- is the how of that. How do you actually do that as a practice? So it's not a new belief system -- it's something that becomes how you actually see yourself, and see others, and see the world. So desperately needed in these times.
10. Closing
Cortland
Any final thoughts before we round this one up?
Richie
I think this has been great. I just want to echo what you said -- that particularly at this time, these really simple practices can be so helpful in turning down the volume and allowing us to overcome the divides that seem so insurmountable.
Cortland
Well, on that note, we will conclude this episode of Dharma Lab. We're going to have a series of discussions on the topics we cover in our new book. I think the next one we're going to talk about is how flourishing is actually contagious -- even at a biological level, strange as that might sound. In any case, we hope you enjoyed this and we look forward to seeing you soon on another episode of Dharma Lab. Take care.
Richie Thank you.
Dharma Lab · Born to Flourish · Episode 1 · Transcript edited for clarity and readability.
And then when I meet them -- this is something that happened today -- really at the very first moment of meeting, recognizing that here is a person who is just like me, who has Buddha Nature and has all these qualities within himself. Part of why I'm here doing what I'm doing is so that I could show up in a way that is most appreciative of his Buddha Nature, of his innate capacity to flourish. And that would lead to the most productive kind of interaction. It was a great meeting and I really had this very palpable sense of connection.
Other examples: eating. I always use a practice around eating. We eat several times a day -- it's a great opportunity to simply appreciate all the people that contributed to having food on the plate, and reflecting on how they're just like me in having these same qualities. And it's a real motivation for our practice -- that we can practice in order to be as helpful as we can, to help others discover their true nature, just like we're trying to discover our own. It really comes alive when you are interacting with people in this way.
9. Seeing the Buddha Nature in Others
Cortland
I love that. And you use this phrase "just like me," which is a whole practice unto itself -- something I find super helpful as well, especially in moments where someone might be a little on the neurotic side, because it's so easy to get fixated on the more toxic elements of experience. I've found that practice in particular so helpful, because in that moment, just remembering: "Oh, just like me, this person wants to be happy. Just like me, this person doesn't want to suffer." And just like me -- even though we don't want to suffer, even though we all want to be happy -- we still kind of get totally off the rails sometimes. We still do things that aren't so kind sometimes. None of us is perfect, and even though we all share these basic impulses, we're all kind of doing this human thing and making mistakes and self-correcting.
To me it just brings in a sense of common humanity. None of us is perfect. It doesn't excuse -- if somebody's doing something harmful, it doesn't rationalize that. It just brings a sense of common humanity back into it. And I find my mind is just more grounded and balanced when I reconnect with that.
And like you, I think the relational part of it is super helpful. Another thing I love to do -- I think I've mentioned this in previous episodes -- is almost like seeing the Buddha Nature in the other person, like I did with CJ in that moment. Viewing them that way. And it's not some abstract principle -- it means very specific things. Seeing that this person has this open, expansive awareness that we all have and that we all completely lose touch with. This person has the seeds of kindness and compassion. They want to be happy and they want to be free from suffering -- again, just like me. They have this incredible wisdom. Look at all the things they manifest in their lives.
You don't even need to think that explicitly. It's almost just bringing to mind this [00:30:00] more expansive view of humanity and this potential we have -- and then just seeing it in the person who's right in front of me. And I find two things happen: it definitely shifts something in the relationship, something changes in the way you're relating to people, as you described in the meeting with the dean. In fact, I think we're going to discuss the idea that flourishing is contagious -- we'll get into that in a subsequent session.
But secondarily, it almost rebounds and reverberates back to me. When I'm seeing that in somebody else, it creates this little loop -- suddenly I see it more in myself, and then it's easier to see it in them, and it kind of builds on itself in a very positive way.
So relationships are clearly one very powerful way to do it. What about your more formal meditation practice -- do you work with this there as well?
Richie
There are certainly practices I do that remind me of our nature. The "just like me" practice that you were describing is actually something that is taught in the Joy of Living curriculum. There are times when I will do that very explicitly. And then there are other, more elaborate practices in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition that really remind us of our true nature -- they're accompanied by reflections and they've affected me deeply. I come back to them regularly, and they spontaneously arise during the day when I'm interacting.
Having that formal sit time on the cushion is really helpful in creating the causes and conditions that allow them to arise spontaneously -- particularly when there's friction during the day and when this perspective is really going to matter.
Cortland
I find that too. And I think for me, both in formal meditation practice and equally throughout the day, a lot of it is just remembering this inner orientation -- noticing how much of the time, my default, and probably for all of humanity, is the opposite. The default is to constantly be in this fixing mode where we're seeing the flaws, seeing the imperfections, always trying to get things better. We're fixing ourselves, fixing our relationships, fixing our partners, seeing all the flaws in the world. And we just totally miss this basic orientation to the stuff that's already here.
So for me, as much as anything, it's just clicking back into that. Noticing the orientation toward the problems and just shifting back into, "Let's not forget about everything else that I'm maybe not in touch with."
Richie
And one other element here: when a person is engaged in some kind of behavior that seems harmful to themselves or to others, the kind of practice we do helps us to see them as confused and maybe deluded -- but not fundamentally --
Cortland
Not fundamentally -- or evil or anything like that.
Richie
Exactly. Their action may be something you want to condemn, but it arises because they're failing to appreciate their true nature. And that engenders compassion. It really does. Even for public figures who I don't have to name -- who engender almost rage at times -- it really flips quickly. You see: "Wow, they are so confused. It's so sad that they're so disconnected from their underlying true nature." And that just immediately transforms the response into compassion.
Cortland
You can see the world is so in need of this perspective shift -- so we can start seeing the good in each other, even if we disagree, even if we're on opposite sides of the political divide or the religious divide or whatever the divides are, which seem to be so many these days. We need to find a way to come back to common humanity, to something good and wholesome that is there in all of us.
And what we're seeing here -- and certainly what we talk about in Born to Flourish -- is the how of that. How do you actually do that as a practice? So it's not a new belief system -- it's something that becomes how you actually see yourself, and see others, and see the world. So desperately needed in these times.
10. Closing
Cortland
Any final thoughts before we round this one up?
Richie
I think this has been great. I just want to echo what you said -- that particularly at this time, these really simple practices can be so helpful in turning down the volume and allowing us to overcome the divides that seem so insurmountable.
Cortland
Well, on that note, we will conclude this episode of Dharma Lab. We're going to have a series of discussions on the topics we cover in our new book. I think the next one we're going to talk about is how flourishing is actually contagious -- even at a biological level, strange as that might sound. In any case, we hope you enjoyed this and we look forward to seeing you soon on another episode of Dharma Lab. Take care.
Richie Thank you.
Dharma Lab · Born to Flourish · Episode 1 · Transcript edited for clarity and readability.